Hey everyone! Just making sure this blog works! Come on, make comment and ask questions! I'll endeavour to answer if I can!

Why doesn't the women incorporate the JMK trophy as the final for the showcase series - like the men have adapted with the AIHL and the goodall cup? I can see how the women are going to be able to afford to do all competitions and possibly go away on the national team?

sorry actually meant "cant" - cost are high to play this sport and the showcase series seems a very positive progression for the womens game but do we really need JMK as a seperate tournament?

I agree with the comment posted, JMK trophy should be incorporated into the National Womens League. It is becoming more and more difficult to be able to afford to participate in all competitions. We have made a start lets move women's hockey to the next level.

If there is a desire to have JMK recognised as the premier competition in the country, then it makes sense to have it as the Trophy for the National League (as was done for the Goodall Cup in the men's league). The State based JMK competition, as it stands, has been down-graded in terms of the level of competition now that imports are not allowed. If there really is a desire for a National League, then imports will be a part of that and the standard will be higher for Oz players. Other opportunities can be created for State based comps, such as Under 20's or Under 18's etc.

1.The National Championships are all about state vs state. What have imports to do with that? Do they have any pride in playing for any particular state?
If you liken JMK to state of origin football, do you see any imports playing there? Read any comment from a S of O participant and its all about pride in playing for their home state. I would say that the competition of JMK has been down graded because the better Australian players from the past no longer play and the development of new players has been sadly lacking.
2. What sort of National league will it be when one state can only form a team with beginner players and even then they have to amalagamate with another state? Is that really taking the sport to the next level or just providing a new forum for the same hockey?

First, import players were introduced to lift the level of the game - which i feel has been achieved in many cases, it was not a push from one state to try and stack their team so they could win JMK.
Some of these players have put alot into women's ice hockey and have now gone on to become citizens and represent Australia in our national team i.e Tamra Jones(SA) and Teresa Moriarty(QLD) (and I also think Kelly Stock (VIC) is the same? forgive me if im wrong) so there has to be some pride associated with that - don't you think?
I know for certain that some of our better players are not going to participate in JMK 2007 because they just cant afford to and yes this will bring the level down for some states.
I think we need to look at the realities. We can not afford to fund two elite competitions. Join them into one and focus energy and time into making the Showcase Series the best competition it can be, so that all states can send teams and our players get a high standard of games.

Winning National Championships does not make one a better player...a happier one, no doubt, but not necessarily a better one. If players wish to improve, they have to be exposed to higher levels of competition. Imports provide that. Playing with and against players of higher standard improves a player's skilss and game sense.

In all the discussions about JMK versus National/Showcase, there is one important fact that shouldn't be forgotten. A competition will only happen if the players have the will to participate. If the players don't care about a national league/showcase series, then it won't happen, no matter how many administrators push for it. So, are enough interested?
Deliah is right; it is too expensive for most to do both. A National series over summer will cost a player slightly more (around $200) than if they played a local league and attended a JMK out of town (both around $2000 per year depending on format of national league, with mini-tournamnets being the more expensive aoption). Registration not included.
The men's national league began with only 3 teams.

Is it just me or does any one who participates in these competitions each year feel somewhat of a post competition blues? The thing that gets me down with JMK is that its all over in a matter of weeks. Hell, I'd prefer to pay 2000$ a season and just have everything included,
- practice times
- national league
- selection camp or something like it

The best thing I think we could do is incorporate something across the whole season, whereby you pay a lump sum of money and everything gets covered. For example, to start the series off you could start with a competition where by all the teams are in the same state for a round robin whereby National selectors can rank their players.
Then each team travels a couple of times, and then later in the year a similar thing might happen and the following 2 days is part of a selection camp.
Now the only problem I see by encorporating the JMK into a WNL finals series would be perhaps the introduction of weaker players which change the dynamics of the team. Now any team wanting to win is obviously not going to want to bring too many development players into the most important part of the league.
Nonetheless, you could introduce a situation like the AIHL finals last year where the 4 top teams competed (in our case there are only 4 teams) - call this the JMK part of the series, and then during that period of time host a club/ state based development competition to run along side it - thereby getting more players of a development standard veiwing a better competition, but still competing at a level where they get enough rink time to see it as a worthwhile competition.

Appologies if this makes no sense!

I forgot the point I was trying to make...
If I get to play hockey on a more regular basis then I wont feel down after a single competition.
The other point is if I can pay that much and play throughout the season, then it saves me 500-600$ playing club level agianst the men who I don't really enjoy playing against or with half the time.

Del, To quote you, " it was not a push from one state to try and stack their team so they could win JMK." Interesting point you make there, out of the blue. But keep telling yourself that, you might convince yourself it's true but you'd be hard pushed to find anyone outside of S.A who thinks the same. You would probably also justify your taking players from other states to fill your team by saying you are presenting them with an opportunity to play at a state level, but maybe in reality it was just easier to do that than spend the energy to develop a strong junior base.
In the last 7 years have numbers gone up, down or stayed the same in S.A?
Will Paro ever have a regular local womens' league to play in?

Chris you would probably find a lot more people interested in playing a NL if it didnt cost near $100 per game. The AIHL fly all around at minimal expense to the players yet still the women have to fork out everytime. At the moment the JMK is better value for money.
Does IHA employ anyone to gain funding and sponsorship?

Rather go fishing - I'm guessing you are from NSW? perhaps bibby or sandy? could be wrong :S

First off - give Dels a break - she wasn't even involved with the team last year.
Now,
In some ways I would have to agree with you with regards to what you have said, yes SA does have a problem with numbers however, we have never held back players of a lower level in an effort to stack a team. Each team we take away is based on the number of players we have playing in SA at the time. Is this a problem - yep it is! and believe me some people are trying to counteract the problems that some people may or may not have been responsible for creating in SA with our decreasing number of players due to the creation of what some may perceive as an 'elitist' team. Nonetheless, I am going to have to go ahead and disregard your comment about stacking teams because in the last JMK two of our players (who might I add were under 12 at the time) were in the top 10 and top 20 points scorers. The fact that NSW is yet to step up to the plate and take the championship doesn't lie in SA's flaws, nor SA's abilities to create a team of strong players that is within the tournament rules. NSW has by far the best league and best pool of players with their whole team (in my opinion) probably being at a level high enough to participate in National team try outs.
A team of 4 or 5 decent players and some beginner/intermediate players should NEVER beat the NSW team...

Anyways thats just my opinion, and this year I think our team will be different (providing the people I am trying to get to play will play) and yes they are new... not just foreign.

Rather go fishing you have raised many points.

The AIHL are teams that are owned by people hence the subsidy in costs, they have people pay to see their games and have numerous ways of obtaining money. The women are not there yet, it would be nice to be in that situation but I can not see it occuring in the near future.

As far as I know no one is paid to gain sponsorship in IHA. I know there are people in each state that have attempted to secure some monies for players. I have personally attempted to gain sponsorship for our women but many are reluctant to proceed with our Showcase Series being so short.

In regards to imports the South Australian womens players are fully aware of what is said about them so i was just repeating said statements. You seem to neglect the fact of the impact some of these players have done for our sport.You can have a strong team on paper but if they cant play together you got nothing.It is easy to make excuses and blame someone else for a teams downfall. You may have the best of intentions but if it does not suit someones personal agenda it is very easily critisised.

While we have no dedicated Womens league in South Australia there is a non checking mixed league that we can play in and have done for a few years now. Playing against the men has been beneficial for our development and it is great to play with out the bitchiness and pettiness that comes from womens sports alot of the time. We also have a state based school programme which we also aim to develop players from in the near future.

As i have mentioned before we need to look at realities and it would be great to have funding to fly around and not fork out alot of money for the sport we wish to play but it aint happening just yet. So we need to think of what we can do to improve the current situation and give all our players the best opportunities possible.

Do we only make our sport open to players lucky enough to belong to a state that have a league or do we look at the bigger picture and see what we can do for the greater number of players who may not be in our home states?

Australia is a big place! it actually is home to many states not just one.

Hey, this is great to get some dialogue going about women's hockey. Just to add a bit to the conversation...currently the women's council is having a sponsors pack created by the marketing department of Ballarat University. IHA does not pay or employ anyone to do this, it must come from volunteers, the same people who are working hard to get things shaking and moving. When this is finished, it will be used to hopefully gain league sponsorship. As has been previously said, the AIHL teams are owned by individuals who see a return on their investment by having 400 spectators at a game. Unfortunately, the women having that kind of following is unlikely, and therefore, no one individual is willing to foot the bill for an AWIHL team. And finding sponsorship is very hard, though we are trying. This means, that in the meantime, all hockey will be self-funded. So do we turn the JMK into the trophy for the AWIHL? That is a possibility. However, only IHA can make this decision. If this is something that the majority of females want, then the council can present it to IHA for ratification. I am not so sure that this is what the majority of females will want though, as the elite players are actually a small percentage of the total girls playing in the country. The development players have a rather strong voice, and indications are that they like the current status quo.

AIHL got off the ground because there was sufficient interest amongst the top tier of players. AIHL and Goodall Trophy remained seperate competitions for a couple of years, but the best players in the country had made a decision not to play in the Goodall Trophy due to financial constraints (even though the financial committment was not as much as the women players face). Eventually, it was recognised that if the Goodall Trophy was to continue being associated with the highest level of hockey in the country, then it should be awarded to the winner of the AIHL.

At the end of the day, what's in a name? The important issue is where the players want to spend their hard earned money. The men were helped in their decision making by the fact that they were being partly "subsidized" by the team owners (rest assured that the income produced at AIHL games and sponsorships does not cover the cost of running a team).

If a national women's league is to attract sponsorship, it must first show that it has a product to sell. Currently, we do not have that. Unfortunately, its a bit like the chicken and the egg.

Given that financial considerations are the most important factor relating to establishing AWIHL, it would be interesting to see a comparison between what it costs to compete in a regular home series plus attend JMK interstate (with all the associated trainings etc) versus the cost of the proposed AWIHL/Showcase Series for each State. Armed with that information, players and administrators can better judge the likelihood that AWIHL will ever happen or what it might take to make it happen.

Better Off Fishing might have a point. The last time that NSW won JMK was in 2002, when 7 of their 15 players were not from NSW. But no-one accused them of stacking the team to win; they were the best team and deserved their win. The composition of that team ensured that there was some high level competition at the tournament. Players certainly lifted their tempo. It was just a pity that it was all over in several days.

Since then, there has been a major decline in interest and numbers in the NSW women's program, with teams folding and amalgamating. Every other State has similarly suffered. Fortunately, it seems that the trend has now been reversed in NSW. Hopefully that can be emulated in each of the other States.

Chris,
Like you said above - perhaps it would be interesting to establish the basic costs of a season of travel as opposed to a single one week tournament.

Basically I view it as JMK = $900 - $1200 cost inclusive. + season of club = $500-600 with training.
+ selection camp for eligeable players = $500
total = somewhere around 2000$

As compared to season of training ~ $100-$200
12 game season, 3 x travel @ $200-$300
3 x 1 night accomodation @ $40-$70
3 X 2 days food @ $25-$50 total
3 x 2 games rink hire @ give us the damn rink time for free (if not approx 150$-$200 p/team p/we, meaning approx 150$ cost per individual if rink time not done on special deal)
1 X final weekend at similar cost to 1 weekend =
and we get.... (taking high values)
200 + 900 + 210 + 150 + 150 < $2000
slot the NWT selection criteria in somewhere perhaps 2 camps measuring different things and badabing badaboom... works out easily... at least in my head.
I think total costs can be minimised to some extent and a team that travels throughout a season is much more likely to achieve sponsorship than a team travelling to one single competition.

Another point of interest would be that players participating in JMK have to take a about a week off to play, while a seasonal NL would be played on weekends and hence those on full time mon-fri jobs would not be as effected.

Joan McKowen dates have been ratified...July 5 to 7th in Adelaide.

Paro,
It isn't Seems like S.A don't really care about those on full time mon-fri jobs.

the dates for JMK are proposed by the host state and agreed by other participating states at an IHA meeting for your information.

Rather go fishing - so jmk isn't normally through the week??
whats the go - what teams are coming to play?
NSW
Vic?
ACT?
WA?

NSW, VIC, ACT, WA, SA are coming. And yes, McKowen, as with most national championships, is usually played during the week. Weekend ice time is at a premium because a lot of rinks have profitable public sessions. So, "rather go fishing", the comment about SA not caring about those with full time jobs is irrelevant. I believe McKowen last year was Sunday through Thursday in QLD? And the previous year it was Tuesday through Saturday in Adelaide?

To rather go fishing -

So if we beat you with no imports this year, are you going to give me an excuse on it being played through the week?

just kidding... :)

Hey Dawn, apperently there are a bunch of teams that haven't registered for jmk - whats the go/deal?

Imports or no imports i think we all know who's gonna make a surpise victory at JMK 2007....

Hey...ACT pulled out last week. I am not sure what's up with VIC. QLD was never coming. Hope that VIC comes so that it isn't a 3 team comp.

Vic is confirmed.

don't kid yourself Bruske you have to stop Shonstar from pullin one of those fancy moves on you in a shoot out first hehe